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Meth  pH of Meth
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| Author | Topic: pH of Meth |
| mntncowboy Junior Member |
 posted 10-28-1999 09:57 PM 
what is the pH of the finished product suppoed to be? what happens if it's higher or lower? |
| Hematite Member |
posted 10-28-1999 10:57 PM
Despite having read in the past that a ph anywhere between 5.5 and 8 is ok, it has been my experience that a steady ph of 7.5 is optimum. Discolouration, intense bitterness and varied states of appearance ie, white and powdery or clear and crunchy etc, are all changed with crystallising at different ph's. The most tell tale thing for me about ph was the yield loss when a two solvent re-crystallisation is performed . Anything that is not pure material will be removed. Others may dissagree 
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| whoops Member |
posted 10-29-1999 01:36 AM
when icing ya can get a poduct that has pure in there but it ussally is a multistep process, if yaa got seed and a good way to keep it from disbanding you will get large shard with a bubble tunnel, i think it is similar to sweat the growyth process creates a loss of water from pressure changes what is growth could be considered a membrane expansion. how do you shield your fiber optic ??????/ yes / momo?? is what is the melt voltage requirement for a microfilimment of copper/magnesium/pd/iron quartz doped microfiliment suspended between copper guides??????///////////a01o |
| Worlock Member |
posted 10-29-1999 03:14 AM
Sloppiest anything between 7.0 and 8.0 Good to great 7.3-7.6 Alkaline is better than to much HCl |
| mindless Member |
posted 10-29-1999 03:20 AM
women are on the acidic side of ph 7 and men are on the alkaline side. being female, i prefer ph 7.2 i have found, that most men prefer a lower ph around 6.8 from a marketing standpoint, with many more male buyers, ph 6.8 is a winner. |
| CHEMMAN Member |
posted 10-29-1999 06:25 AM
Worlock.Can you explain why excess acidity matters. I felt that as the H2O evapped off, any excess HCl would come off as gas .Only that required to form Chilly HCL would remain Adream where this happened did not ruin the dream.It was a real good dream!!Please explain why |
| Hematite Member |
posted 10-29-1999 11:01 AM
Worlock can probably give a better description, but while I'm passing by; The addition of acid dropwise is to bring the ph of the water layerdown to a level where_ after thorough mixing with the non-polar/freebase meth layer, there has been sufficient acidity in the water layer to turn the strongly alkaline meth freebase into the HCL salt, at which time it is no longer soluble in the solvent but is in the H2O and changes not only form , but liquid residence. The actual ph needed to produce this salt from the evaporated water layer would by sight seem wide but as you can see, for purity it is rather critical. ------------------ |
| Barracuda1965 Member |
posted 10-29-1999 08:09 PM
mindless, Are you saying that due to differing biochemistry that men derive greater "Metamphetamine Satisfaction" when the goods are salted out at 6.8, while women will get preferable "Speed Goodness" at 7.2? In other words what is good for the goose is not good for the gander? All due to the paticular gender specific blood pH? Egad. Such a sublime concept. Fascinating. ------------------ |
| Android Member |
posted 10-30-1999 05:19 AM
Oh, fuck! I've seen these ph pissing contest threads get ugly before! 
Hey, if yer usin' strips, ya BEST not be colorblind little mister! From 7 cometh heaven! ------------------ |
| Worlock Member |
posted 10-30-1999 09:19 AM
By adding HCl in this case you are not neutralizing NaOH but are adding the H+ to the meth amino group giving it a + charge and creating a polar molecule that is water soluble The Cl- is attracted and you have the HCl salt of meth (very desireable). HCl is not 100% volitile, in a highly concentrated meth solution at the
temperatures we use. In fact the boiling process will decrease the acidity
only by .5 to 1.0 pH unit. On the alkaline side you will have to contend with Meth freebase not as
bad as HCl. You can add distilled water and reboil the meth solution and remove another .4 to 0.8 pH units of HCl, loosing meth in the process, As you continue adding water and boiling less HCl is volitized and you
continue to loose product. |
| Osmium Member |
posted 10-30-1999 11:30 AM
Pure meth HCl is a salt of a weak base and a strong acid in my corner of the world. So I'd expect it to be quite acidic. This has nothing to do with absorbed HCl, that's just the way it is. Boiling won't change it. At least here in Europe. Maybe it's different in the US? |
| Worlock Member |
posted 10-30-1999 03:00 PM
Meth an organic amine is a weak base. It is not a strong acid. Why would the salt which is a neutralized weak base become a strong acid when dissolved in water? In HCl is the acid the Cl-? It is not that I doubt your reasoning, I just fail to understand
it. |
| Android Member |
posted 10-30-1999 07:45 PM
Well, that's ok then. See, if ya dump it in till ya reach your 7+, it'll bee hella more acidy than if ya drip it in til ya reach 7+! It's always the big ones that fall the hardest!
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| spitball Administrator |
posted 10-30-1999 07:58 PM
The pH is listed in the merck. ( certain wt. of meth into vol. of water) I think. I'm pertty sure it is anyways. I don't have the damn thing here with me now though. If anyone has it, look it up. i could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it in there. -spitball-
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| Osmium Member |
posted 10-31-1999 10:07 AM
Meth freebase is a weak base. Once it is protonated (as a salt, when it has an additional H+ from the HCl sitting on the nitrogen), it becomes an acid. Weak bases and strong acids (like meth freebase/X freebase and HCl) ALWAYS form acidic salts. That's why solutions of pure meth hydrochloride is acidic. Strong bases and weak acids (like NaOH and acetic acid, producing sodium acetate) ALWAYS make basic salts. Sodium acetate is basic when dissolved in water. When both acid and base are strong, the salts are usually neutral. Example: Na2SO4. Solutions of Na2SO4 are neutral. When both acid and base are weak, things become complicated. Example: ammonium acetate is neutral, because both acid and base are of exactly the same strenght. Ammonium formate is usually slightly acidic, because the formic acid is more acidic than the ammonia part is basic. |
| Android Member |
posted 10-31-1999 10:28 AM
Worlock. Osmium's making perfect sense here! Relax, Osmium, as soon as Worlock's mom gets done explaining this to him, he'll be back to bring all this clarity back to soft focus again! Worlock's my hero!
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| Hematite Member |
posted 10-31-1999 11:11 AM
Osmium, I love it when someone like yourself posts and uses the same words that I so enjoy blurbing about the place, but uses them in such a way.... that makes me stop using them for a good deal of time till the embarrassment passes  Still and all you big shit, the best meth I've ever had was distinctly brown despite all I know to be true and contradictory to this very statement. I have also had the priviledge to have taken part in a close examination of what is considered good pure meth, and what I now realise is very far from it in comparison with the samples tested during the study. ------------------ |
| Android Member |
posted 10-31-1999 11:59 AM
You know, Osmium? Hematite's right! You do write exactly like him! You two aren't the same. . nah! |
| saxon Member |
posted 11-01-1999 06:28 PM
What would the ph of meth solution be if u were to mix 250mg meth-hcl powder in 1ml of H2O.,eg for iv use. |
| Hematite Member |
posted 11-01-1999 08:24 PM
The reading of the water you are using will not change after adding the meth. ------------------ |
| AbSoLuTe Member |
posted 11-01-1999 09:18 PM
Here you go Spitball, straight from the MERCK'S mouth. Merck, 12th Ed, Pg 1017. A 1% Solution is neutral or slightly acid to litmus. Does that settle it? neutral or slightly acid? If you are getting your final product using NaOh and Hcl, then I think you will get it any where from 6.2 -7.8, but if you gas it in the solvent, you will get real close (6.9-7.1) to neutral. I prefer to gas it personally, for the trouble of setting up a smoke machine pays better with a purer product first time unless you are real good with the litmus. Just my opinion. |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-01-1999 10:58 PM
well then if the ph ing is done in a lengthy pieco of cappilary tubbing stretched like a long hair from a pyrex tube heat and stretch and ya fill this with salt water or something less reactive where does the media PH remain, wel it is 14 on one side or better than potential expressed as ph?? opps well and less than zeron on the other end? Who wow? And then ya got some enegry or something going on in there hugh? So what method do ya employ to say get an exact ph on that point line????, well there is a way and it dont take me to figure it out for ya but I have an idea, ever see that third plug in the socket the one they call ground wire???Hum me thinks maybe ya could simply put a spinner of some magnetic principle on there or cause some other abnormality to get a specific ph anywhere on that line??? like planting a pole clean through in a circle graft out varios points along that line and maybe concerning the composition of the pole all kinda shit is gona seperate out??? |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-01-1999 11:00 PM
it will change and current density will aslo change and everything will eventually change, it is only a mater of time The ph will change ya just
got to appropiate some brain waves to be creative about it that is all.
Add ground wire, this gets ph 7
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| AbSoLuTe Member |
posted 11-02-1999 01:50 AM
Whoopps, what da fuk you talking about? get some sleep, and try again. |
| Android Member |
posted 11-02-1999 02:35 AM
Sounds feasible, FM. . .I mean Whoops! Do you plan or are you already putting a prototype together to lab test this idea? Surprise is no stranger to electricity. All the knowledge available concerning electricity, still stands by the same disclaimer: It's all theory. Good luck. ------------------ |
| Osmium Member |
posted 11-02-1999 12:18 PM
Meth is neutral? No way! Somebody please have a look again in the Merck, what's the pH of another secondary amine hydrochloride? Like dimethylamine or diethylamine hydrochloride, or any other amine? 1% meth solution is very diluted, and still it is slightly acidic. A 25% solution will definitely not be neutral. It will be very acidic. |
| Hematite Member |
posted 11-02-1999 01:37 PM
Neutral with the paper in front of me Os, and this is some fine experimental fodder Oops, just re-read 25% sol, which mine was not but still. ------------------ |
| Worlock Member |
posted 11-02-1999 11:45 PM
There is a difference 1. dissolving Meth HCl in a solution 2. Adding HCl to the alkaline Meth freebase solution until a specific pH is reached. 3. Evaporating away the HCl from a solution, overdosed with HCl When dissolving it is assumed the solution will be dilute to aid dissolution When evaporatimg just the opposite is assumed the solutes will become hyper concentrated. Equilibrium being maintained. And don't forget FMAN'S triple point Where as the pressure is reduced it causes a decreased boiling point
temperature. |
| Android Member |
posted 11-03-1999 06:59 AM
You just learn about equillibrium? Why all the excitement? You didn't discover anything that can't be found in a third grade science book!
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| whoops Member |
posted 11-03-1999 05:48 PM
what we got is problem solved for now......we have electro we even got voltage specific transformers thaat are adjustable we got solution to make stuff from scratch if necessary we can use mecury and also mastery of the alum thing is done up, extraction and purification of pill pharmucutical has been preformed that is freeing up the H2S04 with charged aluminium scraps with stainless steel and also the technique briefly discussed not onl od we got all this we got the above post it aint just a simple third grade deal this thing ya dump the multi solvent in there and just crush ya poills the only thing ya might do is A remove the color and some of the sugar though this is not necesarly necessary, we also got supercritical fluid extraction techniques, we got at least twenty different making methods and one wich has to yet be employed and that might consist of a thing like a hydrogenation thing except that H2S is bubbled through a colum and at a very low tempature um it can be stored in solution or liquid easilly, rember that there is more hydrogen in a hydrogenated oil than in a similiar volume of liquid hydrogen.... Now so ya do see that ya can isolate a very pure product from dex and this has been report for almost a year now. This same process will if manipulate and offered freely solv most of the filtering and stuff problems, rembering that gel of aluminium will do some real cool stuff, the main problem people are experiencing is some kina of alum salt protecting the goods and this is simply disolved into water ya must uncrystalize the thing then freeze the xtyl out there if necessary ya could do it in a beer can and add some electricity but ya thi will eventually lead to the ancient technique employed by the egyptians for power source.....thus electrolysis is a simple thing at the specific almost at potential the alum should go drop out of solution become atracted to the electrode and all that and stuff, we got I have tried to employ a way that was used by the greatest discovereres that ever walked this planet and they made there own from scratch, they were not rich though they may have had money they did live a different way I would say, and they were not greedy in these pursuits. The thing is eith battery acid or alum and I kill the battery acid thing all the way with that thing in the couple of tries, I dont know what is so scary about the gov anyways I am more scared paying taxes than rot in prision ,,,,prision is a blessing to those who consider themselves freer there....Anyways there is alot offered here and more experiment will continue and the local authorities have been notified of the priviate research activities an fear them little. My equipment is the simpilest stuff ya could ever imagine nothing here cost over ten dollars and could easily be thrown out at any time, if I say want chromium salt I got get a crommolly cylinder and scrape fillings from it and the treat it with acid and electrolyse it or treat it with a gas, I have never found it necessary to distill a solvent, and tehem days are over as far as I am concerned. I would consider a process in microwave though if in a hurry, I have melt a few of these they contain an fire well and though not explosion proff they ussually just rip from the screen out with the door flying off, more dangerous experiments should be proformed by the bomb squad for peliminary training....this is what we get from the gov when this becomes legal ,,,no more jackasses! |
| mrr
pyrex Member |
posted 11-04-1999 07:07 AM
I must agree with ya on that Ph turtle, it is cheap but accurate way to monitor Ph adjusting, now that I got my replacement probe from the manufacterer, just a note, the housing of it ain't quite what you would call solvent indestructible, toluene and acetone will attack the housing. :-( Besides that it is great and can keep logs and can even be programmed to sound a audible alarm if your Ph goes too high or low. Pyrex out of the solvent |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-04-1999 11:43 AM
Pyrex there was somewhere on the net discussing calibration of a simple ampmeter to do those fancy calculation it the probe is probabbly just a galvinazation process. Ya can buy an ampmeter to do these calculations for less than ten dollars, i have even seen electroless methods employed to measure ph that do not use batteries, simply playing around with the ampmeter will produce results...A010 |
| aqua-girl Member |
posted 11-04-1999 12:07 PM
argh.... I keep burning through pH probes at an alarming (and expensive) rate. anyone got any suggestings? think it's a standard pH probe connection? |
| AbSoLuTe Member |
posted 11-04-1999 04:34 PM
Aqua-girl, If you are gonna use a P.H meter, you have to take real good care of it. Calibrate it at the approximate ph you want in this case 7. keep a squeeze bottle of distilled water handy and rinse after every test and when you are finished. If you do ph's with really base or acid solutions this very quickly kills the electrode in the meter. Do a search on 'P.H tips and techniques' written by Worlock about 2-4 months ago. It will give you all the info you need. I usually use ph paper untill I am very close to what I want and then use the electronic device to get the final accurate figure. |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 12:56 AM
Shoot I just plug in and wait, no need to measure ph at all it is constant at a certain point. and only two atoms once alowed to react need fussing with....Thus one is stripped of from the sensitive region, this might prove challanging but ya want to do this really complex thought......A strip of a hydrogen opening for attack for clorine B replace clorine wich has now attempted to combine with the oxygen atom, taking hydrogens vacancy C allow clorine to be replaced with a metal salt in ionic form, now alow this metal to hydrogenate, now finaly as the metal hydrogenates remove the thing in a anodic reaction, without the piezio pulse it aint never gona happen right.....See it the metal has got to be attracted to cathode and then curent reversed just long enough for to cause a galvination of it and hopefull resultant incorporation in the cathode at later current normalized.....More later on theory still working on it, it is simple though....A010 |
| mrr
pyrex Member |
posted 11-05-1999 05:25 AM
absolute I must agree with ya on that method....after replacing one electrode, I decided to make that the last one for some time by doing same thing you just mentioned, use the cheap Ph paper on the roll(Hydrion Spectral)1-14, then when things get closer go to ColorPhast Indicator strips(4 indicating pads on each strip), then last or when I doubt the paper reading use the Electronic Meter for final readings. Saves on the replacement probes that way, or at least in theory. Pyrex out of Ph strips ;-) |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 04:59 PM
Wor10303 I suspect thst it the thing is like ammonium accetate the compound formed by vinegar and ammonia or something simmiliar, I aint positive but the HCL form is simpler to work with in many cases, there might be my question in there good paraphrasing, thanks,,um the hydrogen wraps a clorine in between and a opposite sticking out the resulting in somewhat stable filler for the emptyness of less an o there, all the weakness and easy stuff happens at this site? this creates a less open part for electronic attack, in the case of ephedrine and such the clorine seems to attach here also, this is not allways benificial I am guessing though....otherwise there is little incentive to freebase the thing,,Just stripping something here it is a weak potential base proally similiar to a buffer, ya are buffering it to some extent making it stable, and at a more fundemental depth here at this electronic exchange area other neat stuff is probable to happen? |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 05:38 PM
ya might have freed up a hydrogen has thus expanded or somethignescapes from the to satasfy in freebassing method um ellectron lost from product seems likely as maybe a hydrogen might be sucked off in due course, to promote the formation of h20, um critical think in this direction is then reversed, because in electro I think we get some kinda equlization reaction math adds up, though this is proally more in tune with fussion of something I like to think hydrioion electron is lost and the resultant pair escapes from solution, these are wide spaced because of same charge and share an electro forming the H2 gas, I might be wrong,,,but this increases pressure above the solution and causes a cascade or loss of hydrionin electron from the generated gas above the solution while the double base pairs are charged with singlet electrons, making them in coupling in underpressure electron doners, thus if we electolyse a flux of these charged particles enters solution in most case containing some sussciptable hydrogen hydrogen is attracted to electrode and the resultant rip strips off on of these hydrionin ions in the vacume of the current causing a singlet, a doublet or possibley a trafic jam, the resultant OH and any other spiter becomes paramount to the paticuliar type of reaction being formed, sometime ionic bonds for example are easilly parted out each for its own the magneticellectropull is preferential for on component of an ionic latice and then only the trigure agent might be recognized, such that hydrogen escapes from an electron and another looses it electro all together as on the other side a trafic jam starts ,,,hydrogen at zero strikes it partner and the attempt to for a stable configeration exiting in gasseous form from sat solution of singlet empty and doublet hydrionions...if hydrogen is not egected I wouldent know what to think...from water...so these cascading hydrogens do what to salt???hopefully on of two possible choices considered, oh / h / o well for o we get one choice clorine I think, in this event the clorine is shuttled back to the oxygen cell side along with the clorine which vapes out simmiliarly as the hydrogen theory, again o is returned to do its fancy work possiblyma clo is going back for more fun and finds stable ionic thing waiting target thus now possibly clorine attaches surounding the o entirely and begins to return to the influx of tidal and is forming this clorine in the opposite manner of the hydrogionin theory thus that clorine is given potential but only fter allowing the cascade to back back into it causing the eventual gasses and discoloration of water, so then clorine is attracted to O in one case now double that idea cause we gots a surpluss sinking of electron excitment to deal with presently it seems,,,na is being washed of electrons and held at the electrode surface for a short while possibly as Nao or something simple it is gona repel the hydrogen cause it is same charge, possiblity exists for most stable configeration in this thesis, thus Nao at the surface or in cascade and simply a hydrogion ion is in vacume lost through the magnetism paradigm and at for against possible work to be preformed,,na oh sucks the complimentary synthesis outa the cascading stuff available to be the galvinated metal at overpotential, well I conside these events overpotential, cause there is generated a back pressure from the first on of these solids to drop out of solution is beautiful to see this happen, the seperation of the precipate, a basically anyhydrated thingy is well added onto....a seperate paradigm that is well beter seperated for saturation conditions in the solution, thus naoh operates as the fundemental precipatant fueling the other reactions by alowing the cascade and work to be preformed even under escillating pressures, and this results in a loss of tempature, as well as gassification, so far as I see the only thermo thigny here is micowaving backpressure vibrations though some might consider breaking ions to generate heat of solution, there is seemingly more heat created than necessary because we are chargig the thing with work force, the reduction is happening to nacl when oxygen is added as in galvanization but at overpotential here....hydrogen is in excessive configeration and becomes excited and it expands when excited either way juming from solution as divalent gasclorine or nacl is oxidized when it becomes naocl and is sub stantially revoked of its clorine, or supperellectronated, simply loosing a clorine now taking charge at entering fee walked back to glavinazion area and revoked place to sit in solution, see this aint complicated any way to explain from anty perspective will work than after all the maze routes are mapped it is easier to figure what really happens with a real solution in differing pararamaters paradigsms,,its clasic chemistry at the base one starting plate, ball one zero strikes, you are gona walk for shure or hit you decide? |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 05:47 PM
critical configeration is mployed for clorine is time must be allocated because of vacume and backpressure it gots to swim up current at a disadvantage taging along the oxygen or nao compound before it can gain enough ummphh to escape and them clorine are bigger or littler in volume compared to well it runs like a marathoner thats for shure no onto the coolest shit ever, COLD FUSION MAG |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 05:52 PM
tripple point is cool and water acts behaves most uniquely under the influence of such thing as mixed solvent, see water to all kind shit as you head spins for many hours of wainting for the thingy to get bussy....with whatever circus performer ya have got placed in there??? |
| whoops Member |
posted 11-05-1999 11:47 PM
Allright heres the idea for the new thing thing nuber five......Into a solution of electrolysing salt goes naoh solid on one side, and on the other saide it becomes HCL bolth dry, simply mixing the gass and form anhydrous hcl and we got a surpluss of hydrogen, which means what I am thinking, we wnat to create a base thus we must subtract hydrogen from the whole of it to get our reduction, hummm so simply put in saline solution with a nail or needle attached to ground we poke through a baggie or line up a bunch of buckets and the middle bucket results in nuteral stuff, and it would be done in an ingenious way, thus the challange goes out to the world we will race again right???? You can isolate watever and I will isolate ammonium and vinegar as the acetate thingy as I got a bunch of ammonia I want to race?????, Chalange will be to a most observant with available technology fastes working model, more points for great variety that works on everything??? Also next step shall inclube nicrome wire heating matel in line to form dry hot gasseous nydrogen dont burn without oxygen? HCL aint umm explosive?? It could dam well go pop expand it contains and this is proally the ballon stuff ya here going pop...ops my eyes....uyam run through dessicator or blow through tube maybe use some ellectro H2S04 for this maybe also put in drying tube as the ammonia fountain and hydrogen fountain are bassically the same, so if this is a race I pick turtle before bots any day of the week anybody wqnt start now will also redo the freze thing, if ya havent figure it out I hope ya never do because some scew shit hard the wrong way, I say not free but worth every friggin sylable and it aint morse code here ok? Make it last while it works......Rgae agaist |
| Android Member |
posted 11-06-1999 03:58 PM
Whoops. |
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